Cleaner* FearTheLion

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Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:14 am

Hello I'm FearTheLion and i want to join the overload scanations group as a cleaner! i have gone to art school before, and it has been some time since i have done cleaning. By "cleaning" i mean "animation cleaning" as i have done most of that at school! So i believe that cleaning manga would be pretty much the same as cleaning animation frame by frame... But without the pain on being all slow and everchangingaction.

So I'm willing to take a test and see if i got what it takes to be in your group!
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by SuppaiNoRingo on Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:27 am

Welcome FearTheLion, Hope you enjoy yourself here.

Alright, here's the 'pages pack'.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?j4fd23pqz37l710
Start with at least page 01, feel free to do an extra page if you want, if page one was too easy.
You'll be given a new page depending on your current skill level.
If you don't have how to start, fear not and post here and we'll explain.

Good luck!
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:29 pm

SuppaiNoRingo wrote:Welcome FearTheLion, Hope you enjoy yourself here.

Alright, here's the 'pages pack'.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?j4fd23pqz37l710
Start with at least page 01, feel free to do an extra page if you want, if page one was too easy.
You'll be given a new page depending on your current skill level.
If you don't have how to start, fear not and post here and we'll explain.

Good luck!

I was in a hurry so i did them all.... Wish i have payed more attention, on what you said on the third line!
anyway i had some trouble on 04 (speed lines), 06 (the girl), 09 (cant do black without killing detail), 11 (same as 09), 14 (very noisy), 15 (well... i loved this one!!! so no problem here! other than losing color to kill noise)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/0f84y8v79msx3dj/%5BOS%5D%20Cleaning%20test%20-Done%20by%20FearTheLion.7z
(all in pdf ; 7zip archive) Arrow
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by whythecake on Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:29 pm

burn tool burns blacks but watch out it takes some whites away and NEVER burn greys

Spoiler:

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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:47 pm

whythecake wrote:burn tool burns blacks but watch out it takes some whites away and NEVER burn greys

Spoiler:

Cool time for me to upgrade my skills!
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by SuppaiNoRingo on Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:01 pm

Alright I'll be going trough it page per page, quickly pointing up mistakes. at the end you'll find a summary of often found mistakes, tips and suggestions on how to do certain things and how to continue.

Even though there's alot of text you did pretty well and look pretty promising.

Page 01:
Your rotation was good, however because you only rotated a copy and not the canvas part of the unrotated page was visible trough the corner. You can see this in the bottom left corner, at the square. On this page it doesn't matter that much but on most pages it does. The page is underleveled to both black and white; blacks aren't black and there's alot of dust left on the page.

Page 02:
Underleved again; good copying, not much to say further

Page 03:
Aye, underleveled will stop saying this from now on Wink. This page was put in to see how you could clean up blurry grays - but normally I'd give an explanation with this so I understand that you didn't touch them. In case your interested: I make a new layer, fill it with a pattern or 50% gray (if you fill with 50% add alot noise) then put the layer mode at 'screentone'; easy fix, but you wont likely have to ever do this kind of stuff. Also, when done with editing, change your mode to grayscale. Minor thing though.

Page 04:
Your levels were better! Just a little underleveled this time. You didn't redraw the speedlines, for that I'd suggest using the line tool with a tampered end. How to do that? well the line tool is found under the shape tools, works really easy just click and drag a line. There's a tiny arrow above in the tool settings (where you can adjust the pixel size of the tool, etc) click that tiny arrow and you'll see a menu called 'arrowheads'. click the 'end' or 'start' box (try them out both and check what you prefer) and fill in 500~1000% on the length. Now just retrace the speedlines. I'd highly suggest you to do redraws on a different layer by the way.

Page 05:
Good redraw, very nice. One little nitpick: the front of his left leg, there's a part supposed to be white from shading you copied gray. Further excellent redraw!

Page 06:
This is a horrible page and you cleaned it up pretty nicely. We don't have to remove gutter shadow often, don't worry.
Still dusts flying around ~

Page 07:
Fairly nice leveled. We normally clean this with some filtering, goes easier and gives a faster result without losing too much quality if done right. We'll get to that later.

Page 08:
Good copying again, your redraws look pretty promising. One thing missed, in the panel on the middle of the page there's a hatching shading that isn't completely done. No biggie.

page 09:
Also cleaned by filtering, blacks are now filled with dusts. Leveling was almost ok Wink

Page 10:
This is a page that is normally leveled and cleaned up with the burn tool. Rotation was off. (didn't check this on every page, just noticed here)

Page 11:
Alot of manual inking is needed. This means brushing black areas black by hand or selecting with polygonal lasso and filling them with black (I mostly use the latter). Burning doesn't work so well on this page. Your grays looked pretty nice post leveling

Page 12:
Another filtered page. Good copying, you forgot to redraw the smoke line though. hmm.

Page 13:
Yeah this page was shit, very annoying when I cleaned this. The gray on one side of the page is lighter then the sky gray on the other side, that way you'll always see the damn paste. Nonetheless you did a good job on redrawing. You're quite the redrawer.

Page 14:
What you did copy was copied good. The copy in the first panel was slightly noticeable.

Page 15:
It was a bit blurry here and there and you should've copied the pink away. Further good job.

Summary:
Got kinda short on the second half, answering in one-sentence things- Ugh.
Your redrawing skill are good enough, looks very promising.
You need to practive with leveling and manually cleaning things up. We'll start with leveling
When you level you want to remove most of the dust on white and blacks, on tankobon pages you can mostly remove nearly all dust by this. You did level but a little too soft, however underleveling is always beter then overleveling. You can correctly level some of the pages in the test (page 1, 2, 4, 5 are good) - Or if you're bored of those pages I can give you some new ones.
Rotate with the ruler tool - You can find it with the color picker tool. When you have the ruler tool, take it from one side of the panel border to the other and go to image -> Image rotatio -> Arbitrary and press ok. After rotation you will need to crop and lose a bit of the lineart. So will you do one of the test pages again or do you want me to pick you some new ones? you can also name a series you like and I'll give you raws of those if they're good :X.
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:32 pm

New pages will do, as i need more skills in troubleshooting problems on my own.

I was kind of scared to do leveling, sometimes i had to do curves... scary since leveling kind of loses detail. So I took it just under than pure.
The mistakes and problems where stupid of me, should of looked over before i moved on.

Oh "filtering" as in fix noise in photoshop? or levels or ???
and i never used burn tool before, so I'll need to practice using it.

Thanks for the detailed response! It's just what i needed to move on in confidence.

I will be waiting for the next test package!
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by SuppaiNoRingo on Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:16 pm

Alright made you a package with pages that only need the following: Rotation, crop, leveling. (and bubbles)
Even though there are 11, you should still be able to do them quick, If you don't do stuff in between should take about 10 mins, so it's not that much work.
http://www.mediafire.com/?y5p5k6m8qc2cm7m
Now some hints about leveling. You don't really lose more details then curves, they're nearly the same thing just control a little different. Leveling works better for manga pages, wich are mostly black and white, really. Alright, make a background copy to level. If something becomes too dark / light, copy only that part of the raw again and level it softer. If a small white line gets too weak, redo it with the line tool. You can't always level all the dusts out, just level out most and remove the rest manually. If there are alot dusts in a specific area you can also select that area and level only there.
Be creative Wink. Please don't be offended by the gore pages by the way. Gantz and Maid-Sama pages are prerendered, a bit meh meh. The merry page was orignally a color page, so you should level a tad bit different there, I'll leave it up to you to figure that out.

And you don't have to do all of them, just pick a few.
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:48 pm

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/0CM35E8A/Leveling_pack__DONE_BY_FEARTHELION.7z

Not much dust in this one, also i tried the burn tool....and fell in love.

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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by SuppaiNoRingo on Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:41 am

Alright, could be going trough every page, however most mistakes where the same over the pages, so I'll just do it in general
page 6 was already correctly rotated Razz. Now to go on - The two color pages (Yumekui merry and one from Maid-Sama) Where both good, they need a softer leveling, or just an increase in contrast. It's sad that they convert color pages to gray when printing, really ._.

Alright I made some screencaps to show you whats wrong:

https://redcdn.net/ihimizer/img843/7725/leveling1.jpg
Take a look there. The left is what your page looked like, the right is with a somewhat correct level to black. Notice the difference? Do you see how much dust on the black there is left on your version? Some lines in the fair faded a bit in my version, if it's too bad you can redo that with the line tool - make sure you don't redo them too thick because hair lines are often quite thin. You might want to make the line thinner with black lines next to it afterwards. Alright next picture

https://redcdn.net/ihimizer/img253/640/leveling2.jpg
On the left, I overleveled it to black; On the right I overleveled it too white. Now as you can see, the whole page is gray-ish when overleveled to black, It's supposed to be mostly white. That it's this gray-ish means there are alot of dusts left, not dusts that you would manually remove. Thus it is underleveled.
On the right I leveled to white, mostly to show you that the black areas almost completely dissapeared. They are supposed to stay mostly black even when overleved to white like that.

You also did not level the mister ajikko page. Here's why it needs it:
https://redcdn.net/ihimizer/img683/874/leveling3.jpg
It needs a small level too black and white, you normally don't see much pages that need no level at all.

You really need to level a bit harsher. I'd suggest you retry some of the pages here- Sorry if I'm going a bit on about this, but leveling is something that needs to be done on every page, so you need to get a firm grasp on it Wink
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:28 pm

Not a problem.

I'll redo them and use those tricks to make sure i do it right!

I'll post when done.

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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:56 pm

Here is the second try!

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/F1QUHII6/Leveling_pack__DONE_BY_FEARTHELION-second.7z


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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by SuppaiNoRingo on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:51 am

Not sure why, but your rotated layer has some things a little messed up since it's slightly larger then the raw. Not a real problem though, still it'd be better if you'd rotate the whole canvas.
Oh well. The mister ajikko page was good, excellent.
02, one of the gantz pages, was a tidbit off. The area above the tram was way to dark, just like some of the clothes of the people standing on the station. some minor dusts on real blacks left you might want to burn out. Those dark grays, personally I select them (with the polygonal lasso tool mostly) on the raw and right click on the selection and press 'Layer via copy'. then place the new layer above everything, level slightly so it looks good.

Page 07 was good,
page 06 had some dark grays, part of the necktie and the ribbon.
Page 08 was good, except for the bottom right panel. there's you'll probably have to manually ink the blacks
page 01 was leveled slightly too light to dark, further ok.

Alot better, we're getting there.
I'll link you to some guides that might help
Burning : http://senbonzakura.kageyoshi.net/2008/01/11/inking-for-speed-scans-burn-tool/
Manually Inking stuff: http://senbonzakura.kageyoshi.net/2007/12/26/filling-in-blacks-and-whites/
http://senbonzakura.kageyoshi.net/2007/12/31/advanced-levels-and-filling-adjustment-layers/ (only use to check for dusts, don't use adjustment layers for original leveling, just do it correctly in one time!

You can check some other things on his site too, but not all of it is really correct and some of it outdated.
Alright we're moving on to magazine scans now, I'll hand you a preclean and you have to clean the rest up. Us the burn tool mostly, remove dusts and resize. I'll tell you how to do the actual filtering later, but that's really just a matter of putting in the right settings. This lovely filter of ours does mess some things up, when something is totally distorted (compare with the raw for that) then select it on the raw and clean it up manually. When your done inking and doing everything, resize andr remove bubbles / final dusts. The page doesn't need rotation or cropping, I did that for you. The page is quite a mess, I know. When unsure, check the raw.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/lwmz9g

Together with this page, please also retry page 10 in the test, want to see your inking there. page 10 in the original test, it's a huge size Gray-ish page with alot people.

Your redraw skills are very good, your leveling is becoming better, if you get this right and learn how to fix up stuff, like faded lines (if a line is faded on a white or black, fix it up with the line tool etc) Dark grays (level from raw, already told you about this) then you'll pretty much pass. I feel kinda guilty for letting you do so much, you weren't supposed to do the whole pack :X.

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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:59 pm

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/1TT8EIQS/Cleaning_test.7z

If i really need it! then i cant complain!

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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:44 am

Found a small mistake! so here is another link to that one.

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/690CUTTE/EnmaGavel-04_-resize_1200_mid_black_fix.psd.7z

sorry for the link madness!
-----
should of edited my last post than post another

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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by SuppaiNoRingo on Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:08 am

Sorry our times are a bit different =/ (saw your messages in the chat).
Alright, you did pretty well- On the berserk page I wondered why you did that screentone. It made things a little lighter but it wasn't really necessary. Not a mistake or anything, just wondering. Very small ammounts of dusts left, on her eyes (2nd panel) and at the bottom it could've been blackened a bit, nothing much really. Watch out for white lines dissapearing, on his hair (the one with the ponytail) - nothing big, nothing that a qc couldn't fix in less then a minute so.

On your Enma gavel page: Some white lines dissapeared here and there on their clothes, it's a tidbit more then on the berserk page, in some cases you have to redo them here. Then again this is really a misc thing. No heavy dusts, one less misc thing is on the 2nd panel. The texture behind the guy is all blurry and stuff, that is what the denoise filter did. To fix this, you have to select that background off the raw, copy it and place the layer above the clean. Then level it, done. I'd suggest you to do this kinda thing before resizing.

Try the texture thing I mentioned, further you've pretty much passed. Just want to see that last thing, alot of groups don't do it and I hate seeing blurry textures all over the place. Some manga's don't have those textures at all, others have alot.
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:13 pm

The 10... i thought those line where noise so i blacked them...

The texture thing? as in copy from the RAW and via copy layer, then level it differently?


http://uploadmirrors.com/download/NLXEDRIE/EnmaGavel-04_-resize_1200.7z
this one i did not do textures... but something to so with the wand and noise filter! forgot to save the blacks...

ill post your way afterward i find out how to do that.

edit-

Here it is: http://uploadmirrors.com/download/R0LVYSH5/nEXt.7z

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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by SuppaiNoRingo on Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:52 pm

Hm the first one is something that you never should do. Well, not to the whole page, you can do it to parts of the page. Or you can set the mode to screentone if you really want it on the whole page.

Now for the second PSD; - Yeah thats pretty much what I was talking about, except that you only needed to do it on the messed up grays, wich is only on the second panel Razz. And you set the layer to darken (?). No need for that, level it correctly, ink in his air and it's done. But you understand the principle so it's ok.

Now, congrats, you've passed the cleaners test. You'll be added to the cleaners group and you can see the staff forum now, etc etc. Your work will still get a quality check the first couple times, and I'll go over how to use topaz with you later (only a matter of putting in the right settings).
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Re: Cleaner* FearTheLion

Post by fearthelion on Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:53 pm

Great, nice!



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